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It seems that nobody atachs to what you asked "junior programmers", they all talk about what they want.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

"what be creative", I was going to edit that, but I have no idea whet you were going for there.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Shouldn't this be tagged subjective? I'd personally do away with "perks". What purpose would a "perks" tag have?

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Why would this be tagged subjective? There are techniques that work and some that don't backed by research and measured against strict criteria. That's objective.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

This is about PROGRAMMERS, not PROGRAMMING. Thus, off-topic altogether.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

I'd say mentoring would be right up there, though that goes with the experienced programmers bit.

1970年01月01日00分03秒

A good PC, ideally with fast hard disks. No point having them watching a spinning cursor and letting their attention wander. For a small cost you'll be keeping them working without them even knowing you did it! Besides, most of us like shiny new toys!

2018年09月27日45分23秒

A good PC makes a big difference. Nobody likes to work with only 1GB of RAM... :(

2018年09月27日45分23秒

"There are startups and Fortune 500 companies out there which allow jeans & t-shirts." Too true. Microsoft's dress code is beyond casual: most developers wear shorts during the summer, and Seattle is very much a sandals culture, too.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

I must have been really lucky with my first job right out of university. I got every single one of those perks plus a quad-core PC. I'm a web developer, why do I need a quad-core PC? Who cares...? Good benefits were also important to me. I've been out of college for 8 months.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

My company had a building constructed recently. We moved in several months ago. One of the features was smaller cubicals. I didn't mind too much because they gave me one of these chairs.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Has anyone out there noticed how it's next to impossible to crack off a silent one when sitting on an Aeron?

2018年09月26日45分23秒

NXC: +1 dietary fiber.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I have one of these chairs at home, and it was worth every penny. (Which is a good thing, because it cost about 100,000 pennies.)

2018年09月26日45分23秒

A good chair is vital for health. Maybe it doesn't need to be an Aeron, but a bad chair will put you in pain and destroy your life. It's also quite possible that an employer not providing a decent chair would face future lawsuits for harming their workers.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

What's wrong with Brawndo? It's got what plants crave.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Great point on Admin rights - would have never thought of that! Nothing more crippling than not being able to install productivity tools...

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Free Coke might seem like a good perk - but it's not doing your staff any favours in the health department. Healthy brains are more productive brains!

2018年09月26日45分23秒

admin rights - this seems so basic that I'd question the sense of companies that deny it - I'd assume that either the staff was mostly incompetent or that the management was paranoid - But this is like demanding that chairs be clean - if you've got to ask for this you've got bigger problems.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I'd agree with free healthy drinks, like orange juice, and a selection of herbal teas, but not easily accessible junk.

1970年01月01日00分03秒

Having a good mentor is very important for jr developers.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

+1 Definitely - I wouldn't say it's just important for jr devs either. I find it invaluable being able to bounce ideas off other experienced programmers - even of the same callibre. Even if it's just so they can tell me I'm being retarded.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

+1 - This is useful for getting a feel for the environment. How do other developers work here so that I can fit in well?

2018年09月26日45分23秒

To be honest, I consider it more of a right.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

You're both right, and I could not agree more with either of you.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Too bad I never convinced anyone to go for point one.... ;-)

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Cell phone is pointless if they don't have t ouse it for the job. But work home privileges with internet paid would be nice.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I don't want Internet paid for. Then they could claim everything I did anywhere on the Internet was company property. Screw that.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

I also wouldn't want a company to pay for my internet access. They might feel like they have a right to decide what company/plan I subscribe to, and what I can do with it.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Just pay me more and let me choose. Then I can decide the provider and services I want as well as not risk the company trying to claim rights to code I wrote on my own hardware, at home, on my own time.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Matt J - this is spot on. The me generation mentality of "what can you give me because I deserve it" really needs to go away. Those of the me generation that you describe in your last paragraph will the successful ones in the long term.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Paternity leave? Not all programmers are male, young or otherwise.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

You're absolutely right. However, for what I consider to be at least a slight majority at this time (unfortunately), it's a nontraditional benefit worth looking into. I advocate treating people of any gender, race, age, etc. equitably, and this is one way to do that.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

This is the best answer I've seen here... one thing possibly to add: making them feel as if they are making a definite, positive contribution to the work that's got everyone so excited. People don't want to feel important so much as needed. Lean into intrinsic motivators.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Actually, Joel expanded the Smart, and Gets Things Done essay into an entire book: amazon.com/Smart-Gets-Things-Done-Technical/dp/1590598385

2018年09月27日45分23秒

You're using a ball mouse? What is this? 1998?

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Jeff Atwood suggests that a keyboard and mouse are basic tools you should own yourself: codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000666.html (see point three)

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I brought in my own mouse because the supplied one only had two buttons and a wheel. I cant believe youre using a ball!

2018年09月27日45分23秒

+1 I wish I had a whiteboard, I've got a cordless laser mouse which is great - even if it is my own.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Well integrated virtual desktops on a 24" (or 30") monitor (Linux, Mac OS X) beat dual monitors of a slightly smaller size and no virtual desktop (Windows). I am only ever looking at one monitor at a time, it's just that switching applications in Windows sucks, and XP at work isn't getting upgraded soon.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Ditto on the Books

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Ditto on working remotely, but you need to make sure they are "in it".. Prob after a 6-12 month probation period perhaps? I REALLY wish I could work from home, I actually get a lot more done.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

+1 for the books, I love my books. I probably spend more on books than on my utility bills...

2018年09月26日45分23秒

balabaster Books are training materials. So it's a win-win if companies give them away to employees :-)

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Books? What century are you living in?

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Are you sure beer is safe for any employee? I mean I won't drink my mind and do nasty stuff but how about lil' Joe that you not even know?

2018年09月26日45分23秒

We only have 15 employees, and we have tested the beer on nearly all of them.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Not being able to justify an expensive coffee machine is a case of flawed priorities.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Isn't beer an insurance liability? I'm from the UK originally, so I'll drink at any opportunity. I can't believe it's frowned upon over here in North America to have a beer over lunch. +1 for the beer!

2018年09月26日45分23秒

My team meets for a beer (regular or root) in the office once or twice a week for the past eight years, usually for a half hour to an hour. It's always the leaf nodes in the organization - mostly dev and test - and while it's totally informal and relaxed we get a lot of problems hashed out. It helps the new people get comfortable with us. Somebody just has to take the corporate amex card to costco once a month to restock the fridge, and it is well worth it.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

I second this, some feeling of excitement and getting personal benefit from the work goes a long way towards keeping new people within the company.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

for voting make it community please

2018年09月26日45分23秒

downvote: good development needs teamwork. Private offices counter teamwork. Hell, even tall cube partitions counter teamwork.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

You can communicate even if you're in different rooms.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I find that an office full of developers is great, but being one of just a couple of developers in an office full of other random people is a constantly distracting pain in the a$$. So +1 for private offices, and +1 for open plan offices dedicated to developers. -1 for general open plan offices.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

slim: Disagree. You can collaborate via umpteen desktop sharing and conferencing tools. Add video if you really want to. Devs only benefit from proximity when working on the same work unit; and are often tasked to things too small for two people, so they become a distraction.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I can't count the amount of clients that have complained at me that I don't get in early enough when I stroll in at 10am instead of 7:30am like other departments. Why don't they understand that programmers are nocturnal?

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Yeah, this is priceless for me. I can avoid the rush hour commute, which on London's tube system is quite painful, especially in summer.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Another vote from me, as with JeeBee this is very useful for working in London but it does rely on a certain amount of trust.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

I cannot upvote this enough..

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I think 24" monitors are waste unless you have to edit large images; for development work its more cost-effective to get lots of cheap 19" monitors. I have 4x19"s in portrait mode, gives me a 4096x1280 desktop.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I'm not sure if you are right Matt because you will end up buying more or more expensive video cards as a result.

1970年01月01日00分03秒

Why have multiple monitors when you can just have one huge one with multiple windows on it. Editing large images? I can fit 3 browser windows on my monitor... Or 2 browsers and a text editor. Or... more commonly. A terminal, a browser, a text editor and an email client.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I have to admit, even though I have 3 x 19" monitors on my desk which I love, my last client gave me 2 x 30" monitors. I do miss being able to have my solution explorer, properties window and toolbox windows open and still be able to read my code without having to scroll right...

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Totally agree. Editing code on a vertically tilted monitor is addictive, even though weird at first.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Its not negative.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Yeah, this answer is very good. :|

2018年09月26日45分23秒

You didn't go as far as saying a certain level of smart dress is better than totally casual and scruffy, as it's a mental reminder that you're not at home dozing on the sofa. But yes, +1 for injecting some reality.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Agree with you on organised team-outings, I find those draining. But having good amenities at work (even if it's just a decent kitchen/lounge are with no games) does provide a better environment for you to at least get to know your co-workers a bit better.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Schedule outings that are manditory. Those are fun: i.e. whitewater rafting

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Does 'non brain-dead leadership' actually exist?? :-)

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Yeah. Let's keep this realistic! :)

2018年09月26日45分23秒

If you actually tell them at the interview that you don't have brain dead leadership, they'd probably not believe you - if they do they're insufficiently cyncical to survive and you don't want them ;) Better to demonstrate your quality leadership by not having stupid policies like dress codes.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Attracting programmers with toys might be patronizing, but when you've got all the toys sitting on your desk, who cares? :P

2018年09月27日45分23秒

We doe Thursday at my work.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Then you're missing the very catchy name "free food friday" :)

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Twelve o'clock Tuesday Tasty Tacos 'n Team Talk?

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Gilles "Free food fursday" works

2018年09月26日45分23秒

In Norway most programmers have 5, and some even 6 weeks. 4 is the minimum required by law.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

In Australia, 4 weeks is the minumum. After 10 years (!) you get 13 weeks 'long service' leave - paid.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

4 weeks - 20 days, that's the bare minimum required by law in the UK (bank holidays are extra, so 28 days of holiday for a 5 day week). Most professionals get more holidays - 25 days + bank holidays is typical, 30 days quite common once you've got experience. The productivity benefits are high, with well rested, non-resentful employees.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

This is the #1 thing I hate about being an American. :( Companies here think they're insanely generous if they give you three weeks.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Kyraleesa I hear that. I used to work at a place that gave you 2 and acted like you were lazy if you used it all. They wouldn't roll it over to the following year, and they would even have 'blackout' dates in november and december because they knew IN ADVANCE that they would mismanage things to the point of being way behind. I'm constantly tempted to move to Europe.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Scripture in StackOverflow? I'm impressed! +1

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Romanian proverb : Ce tie nu-ti place, altuia nu-i face (What you don't like don't do to another)

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Its very motivating to have examples of the kind of developer you want to become, and some guidance/structure on how to get there.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Wouldn't attract a starting junior; they tend to consider having a job at all to be their career path. OTOH, for anyone after their first job, career path is definitely the big attractor (or they'll be someone that you can't retain anyway.)

2018年09月26日45分23秒

You can use Virtual Box or similar for running a test server system. This gives you the option to have lots of differently-configured (in terms of software) test systems, but only need one physical system.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

The XP box is because I like the XP GUI (and lots of XP GUI apps) and the linux box because I like the *nux command line and environment. I'd go for a VM slice as long as it's big enough to do real processing on (like run my own MySQL server on).

2018年09月26日45分23秒

clarification; nether the Linux nor the XP box would be a test system. They would both be dev systems.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

I write software all the time that assists me to get my job done rather than directly writing the actual apps... is this what you're talking about? For instance, I'm frequently asked to do things that would take me hours if I didn't spend time automating it.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

No, I'm thinking of "hobby" projects.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

Google does this IIRC

2018年09月26日45分23秒

you didn't notice most of this advice so far stems directly from Joel's blog?

2018年09月26日45分23秒

It needed saying, though. Asked and answered, if you will.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

I cant stand the "well hes just a level one" comments. If my ideas are wrong or dont work tell me why and educate me, dont belittle me

2018年09月26日45分23秒

What? There are places that don't allow listening to music? Woah.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Oh yes, there sure are. Spent 3 days in one, never again!

2018年09月27日45分23秒

Ouch, 3 days without my music... if someone had said "no music/headphones to me", I'd have been out the door. You hire me for my talent, education, insight etc. As long as I'm meeting/beating my goals/objectives/deadlines/budgets, how I get there is not up for debate.

2018年09月26日45分23秒

That's indeed shocking. What company was that? There should be a blacklist.

2018年09月27日45分23秒

my company has recently purchased all the devs pluralsight subscriptions. the content is excellent

2018年09月26日45分23秒